IRVINE — For many of the high-tech engineers and entrepreneurs in the Irvine Spectrum business park, the technology culture of Silicon Valley is an inspiration.

Silicon Valley bred a high-tech culture and spirit of innovation that spawned the microchips and computers that have changed the way we live and work. Engineers such as the late Robert Noyce, founder of semiconductor giant Intel Corp., and Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak, co-founders of Apple Computer Inc., were the holy order of that culture.

Some might argue that even Silicon Valley has grown stuffier with age as companies such as Apple grew larger and became more "corporate." But some county engineers still look up to their northern counterparts. They say they feel as if they are living in the hinterlands and long for the day when the Spectrum develops its own high-tech culture.

Gilbert Amelio, chief executive of National Semiconductor Corp. in Santa Clara, has spent much of his career working in Orange County and Silicon Valley.

"For up-and-coming engineers, being embedded in an engineering infrastructure in Silicon Valley helps get the creative juices flowing," said Amelio, former president of Rockwell Communications Systems in Newport Beach. "When I worked in Orange County, there was a certain amount of admiration for the success of Silicon Valley, and there might have been a touch of competitiveness."

To hear Orange County engineers talk, it would seem that the rivalry between Northern California and Southern California extends not only to the state's water supply but also to another precious resource: engineering talent.

Tom Craft, a senior engineer at computer maker AST Research Inc., laments that the Spectrum is missing the artifacts of technology culture--the technical bookstores, popular watering holes for after-hours techie talk and the community recognition that makes engineers feel like captains of innovation rather than computer nerds.

"You don't get as much respect if you're in engineering here," he said. "We've actually tried to do recruiting up there, and it's a problem getting people to move. And professionally, there are fewer electronics firms here, so you find your mobility can be constrained."

In Silicon Valley, employers earned a reputation for innovative personnel practices. They provided exercise rooms, organized beer busts on Friday afternoons, relaxed dress codes and encouraged employee brainstorming to foster creativity. Many of these ideas were adopted by employers across the country.